Why the new Angel ep upset me so much
Nov. 6th, 2003 06:16 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
liliaethI'm going to try and explain something about why I'm so upset by this episode. I'm not saying anyone else has to agree, just why for me personally this episode was so disgusting. And why even now, ten hours after I watched it, it still upsets me so much.
Yes, I know that Angel's done many heroic thing. I realize it's his show and that it's all about him. I'm not going to deny either of those things, but...
What became clear to me, while watching this episode, is that Spike seems to have given up all belief in himself. He likes Fred and he likes that she at least seems to have some faith in him. But other than that, he's been given the belief, by the other members of the Fang gang, but most of all by Angel, that he doesn't matter.
That no matter what he does, what he tries, it'll never be enough to be anywhere near Angel. This is just plain wrong, since in my opinion Spike is a much stronger and better person than Angel could ever hope to be. But noone ever bothers to tell Spike this.
Even when someone (Fred) finally thinks he's worth saving, she's still comparing him to Angel and she still seems to put Angel first.
When Spike asked Wesley about the shansu prophecy, some little chance at hope for him, Wesley makes it instantly clear that he doesn't see Spike as worthy of it.
Even Spike's earlier belief that his saving the world at the very least made him a hero and worthwile has been denied so much that he can no longer see himself as a hero.
Yes, he's tollerated, but unlike with Angel, noone other than Fred (once again) seems to give the slightest damn about his emotions, his feelings. Angel looses a bit of hope and instantly it's a toppriority, but noone seems to realize that Spike too is starting to loose hope that anything he does will ever matter to anyone.
That he will matter.
And to see someone like Angel, who willingly chose to give up his standards and decided to take over W&H for the protection of his son(through a very unethical mindwipe) gets rewarded with money, possessions, all that support, all that belief, while Spike gets to wither away and be treated as if he doesn't matter while he selflessly gave up his life to save the world... That, is unforgivable.
Spike has already spent years in a group of people that has NEVER recognized any of his accomplishments, where only one person was willing to even remotely consider him a good man and only after he'd long proven himself. And he's held strong, all that time, with no support. (just compare that to angel and all the help he's gotten for years.)
It would be different, if everyone had been telling Spike how important he was, if it had been in Spike's personality that he's always bragging about how good he is. But it isn't.
And ME knows that.
And they still use the same double standards they've always used.
I'd hoped things would change on Angel, that Spike's bravery would finally be aknowledged. But it hasn't. And from the looks of it, it never will and that angers me, greatly. He already had to die, believing himself unloved, I do not want to see a repeat of that.
No matter what ME seems to think we need.
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no subject
Date: 2003-11-06 11:41 am (UTC)See it's not that the others don't think what Spike did was worth anything, it's just this:
The gang is a family. Having Spike come in now it's like when Giles was fired and Wes came in to replace him. No one wanted to give Wes the time of day. Everyone is going to take Angel's side, not because Angel is more important then Spike, but because they known him the longest. They trust him. Spike hasn't done anything for the gang. (I'll come back to that.)
Now you have to know that each of the gang has stopped not one but many appocialies.(sp?) So Spike isn't the only one. Past merits don't mean much. What has he done lately? Made snarky comments.
He saved Fred. She has cut him slack. But why not the others?
Lets talk about Angel- Angel won't because well when was the last time they got along? For a short time when Angel was Angelus. Before that Spike came to L.A. and tortured Angel, put hot pokers in his side. Did Angel come to Sunnydale looking to get back at Spike. Nope.
Gunn- He doesn't like vamps. He even had issues with Angel being a vampire. In fact I think he still does. Vamps killed his sister. Angel has proven himself different. Spike hasn't. Gunn doesn't know much about Sunnydale or anything before. He is more of a show me and I might believe it kinda guy.
Fred- Grateful that Spike saved her. Is working on his problem. Nuff said.
Lorne- We haven't seen anything other then Lorne thinks Spike needs to be more positive. Lorne tells it like he sees it. I don't see Lorne bashing Spike at all. Well, Lorne is mostly there for two seconds.
And that brings us to Wesley. Wes is an ex-watcher. He also will do whatever needs to be done to get the ends results. He is very Machiavellian. Lot like Methos really. He has work besides Angel and even stole Angel's son because he thought it was the right thing to do. He holds Angel above him because he believes that Angel is the champion. Again Spike hasn't shown what he could do.
Now lets talk about Spike. The one thing about Spike that is well known and over looked by a lot of Spuffy's is this simple fact.
Spike will do anything for the girl.
With Dru he was the big bad, because that's what she wanted. With Buffy he was the hero. Yes, he knew Buffy never loved him. Yet he let himself be killed because he would rather die then have her die. He loved her. His motive for saving the world both times was because of the girl.
Angel fights not because he has to but because someone needs to. "The world is harsh and cruel and we fight to show it what it can be."
And to see someone like Angel, who willingly chose to give up his standards and decided to take over W&H for the protection of his son (through a very unethical mindwipe) gets rewarded with money, possessions, all that support, all that belief, while Spike gets to wither away and be treated as if he doesn't matter while he selflessly gave up his life to save the world... That, is unforgivable.
He gave up everything, he sold his very soul and the souls of his friends, so his son can have the life he should have. The money, possession, all that support is a means to the end. So he can help others. However he has to live each day knowing that his only child doesn't know him. That is a mark of a hero. He did what he thought was best for his child.
What has Spike done?
no subject
Date: 2003-11-06 01:45 pm (UTC)'Course, Joss does seem to have a "thing" for kicking the fans when they're down sometimes. :D
We'll see, I guess.
Just my opinion
Date: 2003-11-07 02:18 pm (UTC)Keep in my mind that Wesley considers Angel a good friend(how good is up for question because of the Y^&%Y$ mindwipe). He naturally has a bias. Put yourself in his position, whoose side would you take? The stranger's or your friend's?
I personally think 'which vamp is better' debates are stupid. Both have lost so much and done so many heroic things. How people can sympathise with one and despise the other puzzles me.It doesn't look good for Angel though. ME has a habit of making Wes wrong in stuff he believes in.
PS Hope you won't mind me hijacking your LJ to rant. :)
WesYummy!
Re: Just my opinion
Date: 2003-11-08 12:33 am (UTC)And yes Wes is Angel's friend, I understand all that. I guess I'm just dissapointed that Wes hasn't even seemed interested in the whole concept of there being two souled vampires. Or hell, even more amazing the thought that a vampire could have chosen to be resouled.
It's even worse, because ME had Giles have the same attitude and through it ME basically makes it look as if vampires go to get their soul back every day. As if it's just an ordinairy thing which it isn't.
Hell, if vampires getting a soul is normal, that even makes Angel look bad. Cause he's too weak to do it.
If it's a normal thing that vampires are able to willingly choose good over evil, like Spike did, that'd also mean that the scoobies and the fang gang have been denying hundreds if not thousands of vampires that ability of choice.
Making them look extremely bad, in the 'they are murderers'-way.
It's one of the main things that annoyed me in season seven, that noone other than Buffy seemed even slightly impressed by Spike's choice to get a soul.
Wesley being the scholar that he is, should have been researching this very thing from the second he heard that Spike had a soul. Now admittedly, it could be that Angel being who he is, didn't tell him about this choice, (which once again makes Angel look bad). But even then Wesley should have at least considered the option that with a second souled vampire around, fitting all the criteria for the shanshu prophecy that it might not be about Angel, but about Spike.
This all, makes Wesley look bad.
That's I guess what upsets me so much about it.
That and that Angel gets consta
Re: Just my opinion
Date: 2003-11-08 12:38 am (UTC)That and that Angel gets constantly told how great and heroic he is, while Spike's actions are made to look like nothing. Not that I want everyone to constantly go around about how great Spike is, but one hint of recognition, is that so much to ask? I mean, Fred is nice, but I like for once to have someone else impressed by Spike and not just feel sorry for him.
Re: Just my opinion
Date: 2003-11-08 09:01 am (UTC)In defense of Wes though, he only found out about Spike having a soul in Just Rewards right? He might also have seen Spike going to Fred as a slight. He can be rather petty.
WesYummy!
WesYummy!
Re: Just my opinion
Date: 2003-11-08 11:06 am (UTC)Re: Just my opinion
Date: 2003-11-08 11:11 am (UTC)I never thought that it was the soul itself that was important, but the choice to get that soul.
Spike knowingly chose to fight to regain his soul, having seen one of the worst monsters he knew (Angelus) turn into a 'good guy' after getting his.
Now Angel is not a unambiguously good guy, he's done horrible things, but Spike doesn't know most of that. What he saw was an immense effect and he still chose to go for the soul. No matter what his reasons where.
That's what makes the soul matter and that's why Wesley or Giles should have been interested.
Re: Just my opinion
Date: 2003-11-09 10:09 pm (UTC)But here's the rub. Wes didn't know about the soul until Angel mention it. Wes was outed from the group then. Also with the mindwipe we don't know what Wes or anyone really remembers. Wes was a watcher, so vampires = evil. Angel however has proved himself to Wes. As much as I love the ex-watchers. Giles and Wes are different, please don't lump them together.
Giles sees Spike as a threat because Giles loves Buffy as a father would. It doesn't matter who she is sleeping with *no one* will be good enough for her. Angel wasn't.