(no subject)

[liliaeth]

I'm thinking of doing something stupid.
I've been following fics on bloodclaim lately and well I seem to keep running into this itty bit of a problem. It's a problem that has kept me from really getting into spander fics or S/X as a pairing in any form.

The ooc-ness of Xander in over 75% of all S/X fics.
Yes that's a big number, no I'm not exaggerating.

I'm just really really tired of reading about hyenaXander or soldierXander or any other kind of superpowered Xander. In over half of the stories that include any of these forms of Xander, I feel that I'm not reading about Xander, I'm reading about a Gary Stu disguised as Xander.

Now this is just my opinion, I can perfectly well understand that there are people who do like SuperXander. I know that S/X is a very popular pairing and I really don't mind it as a general rule, wouldn't be a member of bloodclaim if I did.
But...
I just much much prefer reading about the real Xander.

Is it so much to ask for an S/X story that uses canonXander. You know the guy we all fell for. The one with no superpowers, the regular guy who fought for what he thought was right. The one that made mistakes, could be petty and immature. The one who signified everything that Buffy fought for.

Is it so much to ask for S/X fics where noone is bashed? No Buffy the bitch, no Willow who doesn't care about Xander, no...Fics that accept that in the series, the scoobies were a family, a family that at times was way too close and hardly let anyone in that wasn't one of the core four.

I may think that the scoobies used and abused Spike, but they were always Xander's family. He might not always be the center of their universe, but they loved him. They cared for him. Are stories like that too much to ask for? In any pairing.

Now to the poll...
I'm thinking of starting a community, don't have a name yet. Doubting between
'Strictly human Xander', real Xander or whatever name that's still open.

Would any of you be interested in joining this community?
This would be a no bashing zone, no ooc characters, no m-preg of any kind, ...
Anything else I might have forgotten?*g*





[Poll #582433]

Comments

[icafreak.livejournal.com]

I'm not voting based on the fact that I can't stand anything having to do with that pairing, but good luck on the (possible) new comm.

[liliaeth]

Actually that was where the last option was for. To make it a community where people can write about a fic, with any pairing, where Xander plays at least a major part in the fic and is written in character.

So the pairing could then be S/B, S/A, Xander/Anya, hell even B/A or S/X no matter how much I don't like those pairings*g* as long as the Xander in the story is the one that actually appeared on the show. So no utterJerk Xander or superXander and no bashing of the characters.

[liliaeth]

uhm, I meant B/X in those pairings I didn't like part... bad me

[rudemuchness.livejournal.com]

You know, you're absolutely right. I can't really say much, and some Spander wrighters do have a tendancy to bash the characters. Especially Buffy. I just don't get it.

I've never bashed a character in a fic, but it really disapoints me when it happens. I don't read fic too much afterward.

I don't like superpower Xan either. Other than vamp!Xan, I don't care for any other type of Xan that isn't conon.

Gl with the poll.

[liliaeth]

Thanks, in all honesty to the pairing, not all S/X fics bash characters. People are getting better about it. But it still happens far too often that a character has the scoobs, esp. Buffy behave utterly ooc in order to gain sympathy for Xander, so Xander can be 'the only one who cares'. This happens in all pairings though. Hell even the show used the system, by turning Buffy into 'the only one who cares' in s7 (and making the rest of the chars look bad by doing so)

So it's not that S/X-writers are alone in this. I just wish I could read a fic where the characters behave like themselves.

[jans-intentions.livejournal.com]

I had mixed feelings about this thing because I worried you probably didn't like my Xander, though I write a Xander I like. But I suggested a name for your community even if I'm not sure I'd have anything to offer.

See ya,

[liliaeth]

Actually I don't mind your Xander. Even the one in Kept is more in character than some of the super/soldier/hyena Xander's out there*g*.

I'm just tired of reading about Xanders that are Xander in name only. You know the ones, where it's not enough for Xander to be a vampire, he has to be a winged vampire who's fallen from heaven with some kind of heavenly voice. (and apparantly that's an actual fic)

There are even some people who can write this kind of superpowered Xander and get away with it, because they're still writing about Xander, like Litgal, but those are a rarity. Too often I feel that someone just uses Xander's name (and often they change even that) as a stand in for their Gary Stu. These are the Xanders who are better witches than Willow, better fighters than Buffy, smarter than either Dawn or Giles, the supreme mages, the poor misunderstood little boys that are the kindest sweetest person out there who never harmed a soul ...

It's not that I can't see the interest in a Xander with superpowers, hell I've written at least three of those myself. (two of them in stories that are still unfinished) It's that I'm tired of reading about Alex Lavelle who only bears a superficial ressemblance to the real Xander.

Is it so bad to want to read a story about Spike and Xander where I actually recognize Xander as Xander and where I don't keep asking "Who are these people?" whenever I read about him or the scoobs?

Now I'm not the biggest fan of m-preg, I'll read a fic where it's not the main focus, but I'm likely to avoid one that talks about it in the header*g* So I'd probably disallow that in this community. But that's just me wanting to read about our boys being boys*eg* I don't mind pregnancy fic, just feel that if you want a char to be pregnant, there's plenty of girls to carry the child for them.

[jans-intentions.livejournal.com]

I think you are talking about the difference of characterization true to cannon in some form and wish fulfillment. Wish fulfillment stories are very popular, they give whatever a shipper or whatever is most looking for, that may explain "buffy bashing" fics or whatever. People are mad over how Spike was treated, reject that Xander himself wasn't very nice to him (because he's flawed and he never really spent time with Spike, nor can he know him as we do) so it does go that way.

[liliaeth]

Exactly. It's not that I say there's only one way to write a character. Hell we all see the chars differently. I might not always agree with other peoples opinion of who Xander is, but that doesn't mean I'll say they're wrong as long as he bears some ressemblance to the real Xander.

The problem is that a lot of fics don't even do that little. Xander is specifically prone to be written as a Gary Stu (male form of a Mary Stu) because he's the regular guy in the group. A lot of people tend to see him as a blank slate that represents themselves. So of course since this Xander is a stand in for the writer he has to be perfect, preferably with superpowers.

I don't mind Xander having superpowers, if he's still Xander. Hell, I've written a fic where Xander turned out to be one of hte sons of Satan. (Hellstorm crossover) But I did a huge effort to keep Xander in char. To see how Xander would react to finding out he had a demon for a father and to not just use it as an excuse to make Xander supercool.

Unfortunately a lot of writers don't seem to see that as a necessity, which has really tended to turn me against any fic where Xander suddenly has superpowers. Yes I know that's unfair, but it's just that it's so damn hard to find a decent Xander in between all those SuperXander fics.

[japewierd.livejournal.com]

I put that I would join a comm like that, but really it's a maybe depending on what the comm actually focuses on.

Good luck with it if you decide to go ahead.

[liliaeth]

Thanks, I know what you mean, it's hard to judge if you want to join a group that doesn't even exist yet*g*

I just started on making the basics for the community, got a name, a profile and just paid for two months of paid time. (wanted to see how the com went before I invested any more money into it)

Think this profile will attract the right people? Didn't dare to put too many factors on characterisation since well, much as it might annoy me at times, we don't all see even canon Xander the same way. Hell I love Jan's Xander even though he's not always how I see Xander. And I feel it would be stupid to limit characterisation to how I see him*g*

[japewierd.livejournal.com]

Yeah I'd have thought that sort of thing was just about right.

It does occur to me though that maybe you need to make comment on the fact that the pairings don't need to be canon, although we all know that Spander was ;)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_sharvie_/]

I understand what you are talking about and I totally sympathize. I really work hard to keep Xander as close to canon as possible, especially since I write in first person and that makes it much easier to turn him into Marty Stu.

But I think you're going to find that you need concrete guidelines for what is, and is not allowed, at your potentially new comm, other than just 'this is a bad characterization' which I think is what you are talking about.

You are looking at a lot of mod work, potentially having to except or reject work that you deem OOC. Which, if that is what you want to do, more power to you. But I think if you set it up where certain 'superpower' fic is not allowed, I think you'll find your frustration level less than what it's been.

Also, since you'd be, in effect, chopping off a good chunck of what is out there, I think it would be a good idea to allow other pairings, simply to bring in traffic to the comm. If your focus is 'Canon Xander', then he can still be canon no matter who he is doing. However, since it is your comm, you have a right to say what pairings are and are not acceptable.

This also goes for subjects...no soldier, no mpreg, no bashing of characters in fic...it would be your comm. What you'd say, would be the law. Whatever it may be.

Hopes this helps...and I'd probably join, since I really like Xander the way he is.

I thought there was another comm like this out there, but can't for the life of me think of what it was....chances are there is, but it may have very little traffic.

[liliaeth]

Thanks for your advice, wonder where that com was. Thing about the pairings is, that well... I personally only read Xander with Spike. But if I make it strictly Spike/Xander, well... that would like you say cut off a lot of people and considering the limitations I'm already putting in, that might not leave us with many people*eg*.

Might be more interesting this way though, leaving space for people to write non-pairing Xander fics as well as shiporiented fics.

The com's called the_real_xander, I just hope that that profile is clear enough. I guess I should put membership under moderation and other stuff as well shouldn't I?

(remembering her crossover yahoo group and giving up after the fifth time that the same person posted another non-crossover fic...)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_sharvie_/]

Might be more interesting this way though, leaving space for people to write non-pairing Xander fics as well as shiporiented fics.

That's how I found that comm! I was looking for a place that would let me post a non-shippy Xander fic. Let me say, few and far between...at least the ones that have seen any action lately. Hardly makes sense to post to a dead comm. If I think of it, I'll let you know. Other than that, the profile looks great. Makes it pretty clear to understand. One thing though, I'm guessing this means no AUs of the human variety? Since that really takes it away from canon.

[liliaeth]

been wondering the same thing. On one hand it's once again, not canon Xander, but on the other... not sure yet. Big reason not to be advertising yet*g*

[violethamster.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think OOC-ness is especially striking when it's Xander. Although I see just as much OOC supposedly canon human Xander. The Joss-ian banter-y dialogue is so much a part of his character, and it's so hard to write. Although I think that's true with some of the other characters, too, after reading fanfic for awhile I'm sometimes surprised when I go back and watch BtVS and see how funny Buffy herself is.

There are writers who do good Xander out there - I'd especially recommend crazydiamondsue and shadowscast, off the top of my head.

[liliaeth]

I know what you mean, the problem isn't just with superXander fics, it's just more obvious in fics like that. I think the problem is one that I myself know from when I first started writing Buffy fic. Xander's the regular guy... now nothing against that, but it means that for a lot of people he's the perfect person to do a self-insert. In fact, a lot of Xander's out there barely try and write the Xander on the show, they try to write the regular guy, to write themselves. Which is why poor Xander ends up totally misunderstood, unloved, uncared for, the only one who's decent to Spike, Angel, ... fill in the blanks.

He's no longer Xander,he's Xander Stu. Sometimes he's Xander with superpowers, sometimes he's understandingXander, but it still isn't Xander. He's the writer's entry in the verse and behaves like the auhor would behave, if they weren't flawed themselves.

This happens to all characters of course, I mean, I've seen plenty of Spike's who don't even remind me of Spike, or Buffy's who serve no role but to fullfill the authors wishes in the fic. I just tollerate it more from Spike or Buffy (well if it's a B/S fic at least*g*)

Maybe the reason I notice it more from Xander is because my liking for Xandner has dropped down so much since s6, so I tollerate less glorifying of the character. Maybe I see it more because I need to see the real Xander, so he can be redeemed for his behavior. (he was soooo close to it in s7 till those stupid malljokes*grumble*)

Hell Xander was in my favoritelist way before I fell for Spike and I really want to see him get redeemed so I can love him again. I'm just silly that way.*g*